Otters. there's a thing..

Well lets see if this will get you talking, or do you not see them.
Three weeks ago, I saw five Otters in a hundred yards on my beloved Stour, they ARE in your river believe me, how do you feel about it? or do you not care!!!!

Iain,
I've spent quite a few evenings on the Welland and very rarely encounter them now. We did go through a period where they seemed to be everywere, but they seem to have spread out a bit now. Having said that, I did have a very close encounter a week or so ago on the Welland in the dark when one came right up in front of me and had a good snuffle about before clearing off.
I think they can be a problem to 'top end' specimens, but on a lot of rivers there are many more significant issues with the lack of fish. Poor recruitment due to floods and lack of habitat, small fish predation from Cormorants etc.
I'm open for debate!
Martin

Hope some more are too mate.
Off now,lets see if we get some response, I am up for a debate as well.
come on lads...

Otters are definately bad news. On the Upper Severn you always see mink but they are thinning out as the farmers regularly allow working dogs to patrol the banks to flush them out. Now I had a good chat with my mate Denzil when I was picking up some bait ingredients and he told me he had seen a pair of otters on the Welshpool stretch of the Severn. A few phone calls later and the otters seem to have dissappeared from the stretch! I know for a fact that the Ouse above Bedford is absolutely crawling with otters and a lot of the big chub and barbel have fallen victim to the otter. Kevin Tolmie told me that certain stretches are almost devoid of barbel and chub now and that the otters have moved off to plunder other stretches. An interesting thing Kevin said was that he floatfished a 'dead' stretch for a bit of fun with his son and caught 100's of roach and small chub. Obviously the otters conserve energy by attacking the big girls that are not fast enough which is why captures are right down. Now its good that there are lots of small fish to hopefully grow up to become the next wave of big sixes and sevens but you are looking at least 6-7 years to attain these weights.

Hello Iain me old mate,

You know my opinion on the bloody things. As ever their re-introduction has been totally mishandled and not thought through. Firstly before they disappeared their main food source was eels, so they wait until the European eels are all but gone themselves and then stick them back in an environment where they have to adapt to a lack of eels and look elsewhere for nourishment. This also will impact on the few eels that remain as if they haven`t got it hard enough as it is.

Secondly; many of them are not even an indigenous species, they are Indian short clawed otters, how does that work? We can`t get the real thing so we`ll get something that looks similar! but these could have a totally different way of impacting on the habitat they are introduced into.

In the next few years I`m sure they will have a serious effect on stocks of many rivers (and stillwaters), especially on larger and to us most desirable residents. Now no doubt, as with mink, comorants, zander.catfish and a whole host of other introduced or re-introduced predators after time a balance will eventually be found between the predators and their prey but until then the damage could be far reaching for specimen anglers.

I have seen them on the Dorset Stour, Kennet, Wey and Thames now. I saw one on the Thames several times and it was obviously nesting? in the base of the large willow, under who`s branches I had my 8lb7oz chub. I don`t even want to think what that fishes fate may have been.

I`m afraid that now the ball is rolling we will be able to do nothing except stand by and watch this environmental cock up unfold.

Next time you have a curry, order a chicken tarka! it`s like a chicken tikka but it`s a little otter.

Mic

PMSL?????????? Its no laughing matter, look what you've started now Mr Foot, turned my post into ridicule.
Back to the subject , if there's any more willing to have there say?

Sorry Sir

Only laughing at his curry! I shall now delete the silly bit

Been speaking to another angler who states that now that the otters have decimated his stretch of river and eaten all the big fish, the otters have now taken a fancy to swans and rabbits...whats next

What next indeed Darren.
I for one feel it will end with a river devoid of fish, The Otters will starve to death after failing to find suitable food stocks after all the fish and other sources have been wiped out.
A grim tale maybe, but what is the alternative?

ps only joking you didn't need to wipe your post.

Whilst a bit of mutual, verbal otter bashing may make us all feel a little better, I think there are other issues which are playing an equal part in our rivers problems, if not bigger parts!
If we are only looking at the, relative, short term of big fish hunting then yes otters almost certainly pose the greatest threat. But, surely long term other problems are just as serious.
There are deeper problems with many rivers if otters can cause such obvious destruction. Surely if a river had a healthy population of fish such as the Wye appears to have they should be able to sustain a level of predation from otters.
The problems we have noticed on rivers such as the Stour and Ouse particularly are so obvious because there was already a diminished stock of fish. This, I feel is where the problem really lies. Obviously I don't have the answers. But I do feel cormorants still pose a significant threat and I don't believe they have yet found a balance. I have witnessed this birds rape a stretch of river and disappear, only to return and repeat the process a few years later when the stretch begins to recover. There are also various problems with recruitment of small fish due to varying local issues, over dredging and sheep dip leakage being a couple local to me. Crayfish etc elsewhere.
Anyway enough of my ranting, cheers for now. Martin
Ps Please don't think this is pro otter, as I think the 'over introduction' of the creatures on an unsuspecting environment was criminal!!

Martin.
Whilst I agree with most you say, I do not agree that there are yet!!!!! diminished fish stocks on the Stour.
A look in the summer will show healthy stocks of all species. Its surprising how big the chub shoals are on some parts,but in winter you would think there were none there . And I am catching plenty of smaller fish to make me think things will be ok for some time, if something doesn't upset the balance!!.
As for the Wye, I think it is a unique river with high fish stocks due the environment it runs through.
It will obviously put up with a lot more pressure than a smaller river, like the Stour.
I feel in time both will be devastated by a creature, which by the most part is not indigenous to this country.

Fair points Iain, I accept the Wye is probably unique, and bigger rivers can definitely handle the pressure better. The impact of ottters is always much more obvious on smaller rivers. They are definitely a major additional problem to some already vulnerable environments.
Martin

Iain and co

Got my serious head on here, for once.

Although I agree with almost all of that said here, I`ve also been fishing long enough to know that our river systems are in a state of constant metamorphosis. We may think that they never change but a myriad of factors combine to effect what ever situation they are in and they adapt and develop to each and every new pressure, maybe not always for the better obviously.

The Stour for instance, I grew up reading and watching stuff concerning Jack Hargreaves, Owen Wentworth, Dave Stueart and many other giants who trod the banks of the Stour (funny I`ve never been interested in fishing the Hampshire Avon in the same way that the Stour drew me) Back in their day a 5lb chub was a very good one and although the occasional bigger fish was caught generally an angler`s season was judged on how many fours he could catch. I myself took 3 winters (from October to March, every Saturday and as much holiday and sick as I could manage) to catch my first 5lber, that was in the late 70`s early 80`s. Now before you all tell me, I know I`m not the best chub angler but the fact of the matter is big chub just were`nt there in any quantity. Maybe the current state of the river with so many extraordinarily large chub is just another freakish result of external influences effecting the state of the waterway?

I`m not trying to excuse the constant meddling in the environment by so called experts who have wreaked havoc in our countryside. I`m just making the point that whatever the reason, our rivers will never stay the same, much as we`d love them to when they are producing fish of the quality that the Stour is currently. If it wasn`t otters it would something else; low water levels, floods, eutrophication, abstraction, predator/prey cycles, Eastern Europeans et al.

So what am I saying? basically this; although I`m all for trying to change things that we can have some influence over, we also have to accept that what ever we do the rivers we love will never stay the same from one season to the next. I think as anglers we all suffer a little from living in the moment and not taking a step back to look at the long term, after all I think to be an angler for any length of time you have to be a optimist of huge proportions (especially on the Thames, 10 bream last night aaarrgghh!!) but we also have to temper that with a dose of realism every now and then and accept that change will happen.

Mic

Very interesting Mic and spot on with your last point. We are Im afraid going to have to live with the fact that we have raped the resorces of the sea to such an extent that natural predators such as cormorants have been forced to search for food inland and this is even happening now with common seals plundering fish stocks in the Kentish Eden. Otters (hate them or hate them) are here to stay and there may be some sort of balancing out in the future but in the short term I feel that a few desperate anglers will get caught shooting otters which will then make headline news, thus further blighting our reputation further as 'killers.
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